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trying to decide between a used miller vintage or new hobart ironman 230????

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  • trying to decide between a used miller vintage or new hobart ironman 230????

    would like some honest opinions on this question.. am a structural welder by trade... have used millers fulltime at work.. cp200 last 9yrs... and think very highly of the millers.
    question:: just got my garage built and wired in... looking to get a nice single phase mig for lite fab work... have been offered a miller vintage for 800.00 have been trying to get him down to 700.00
    have been doing s lot of searching other welders and looks like the ironman 230 is almost identical to the older miller vintage.. can get the ironman 230 through amazon for 1399.00 free shipping and no taxes... plus the hobart will be under warranty.. would be doing lite to medium duty welding on mild steel.. maybe building a small trailer on occasion.. also does anyone know who builds the craftsman #20509, 265 amp mig machine???
    can't seem to find that answer either... it can be had through northern tool for 995.00???
    look forward seeing your thoughts!!!

  • #2
    hi, I'm a MILLER guy so do not have much knowledge on the Hobart. As far as MILLER goes here is their site if you do not have it. You may find info there.

    http://www.millerwelds.com/resources...ng-Discussions

    I know the 230 has fixed taps where as MILLERS are infinite settings. You being a professional I would think would not have a problem with the fixed taps. Here's the site for my local welding supplier. GREAT PRICES. Take a look. Miller 211 , $979.00 and 212,$1575.00
    http://www.weldersupply.com/products...es|Mig+Welding.

    GOOD LUCK , BOB

    Comment


    • #3
      Try this place

      Try cyberweld.com, I purchased Millermatic 251 and a spool gun also Bobcat 250. At the time I bought those the price was better than anyone else. Free Shiping and no tax.
      Ken

      Comment


      • #4
        The Millermatic Vintage and Ironman 230 both offer 12 output voltage taps to choose from. The Vintage offers more top end power that would come in handy if you were interested in spray transfer (98/2 oxy or C10 shielding gas) or running a gas shielded fluxcore wire. If you're mainly going to be welding 3/8" and thinner, and plan on going with solid wire and C25 shielding gas I more than likely would go with an Ironman 230 or the Vintage. The main reason being due to the Ironman 230 being a slightly less powerful unit more of the 12 voltage taps selections fall in the short circuit transfer range on the Ironman 230 then they do on the Vintage. Meaning the Ironman 230 offers more adjustability in the short circuit transfer range.

        Since the Ironman 230 offers enough power ( 1/2" and thinner steel) for any of my real world needs the added fact that it would have warranty and the Vintage wouldn't would have me favoring the Ironman 230 too.

        The Ironman 230 and Vintage both contain the same dual driven drive roll assembly.
        MigMaster 250- Smooth arc with a good touch of softness to it. Good weld puddle wetout. Light spatter producer.
        Ironman 230 - Soft arc with a touch of agressiveness to it. Very good weld puddle wet out. Light spatter producer.


        PM 180C



        HH 125 EZ - impressive little fluxcore only unit

        Comment


        • #5
          dan,
          appreciate your input and confirming what i was thinking... for me the ironman should be sufficient for my needs.. plan on doing mainly hardwire mig!!! i do enough fluxcore welding at work...
          thanks,
          vernons

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by vernons View Post
            also does anyone know who builds the craftsman #20509, 265 amp mig machine???
            can't seem to find that answer either... it can be had through northern tool for 995.00???
            look forward seeing your thoughts!!!
            After doing a ton of research I'm almost positive that the Craftsman welder was made by Clarke. Look up a US version Clarke and they look identical. Pretty sure Clarke has gone out of business. I contacted the Clarke Company overseas and their response was "that is not one of ours!"

            After jumping through a ton of hoops and talking to a bunch of different people about getting information about this welder. I finally got to talk with someone at Northern that was finally able to tell me that Forney Industires will be carrying replacement parts (hopefully) for this welder. There were too many unknowns for me to justify buying this welder. Plus I think it only has a 30 day warranty.

            Comment


            • #7
              Craftsman is good for basic tools, I've got enough of them. However, I am leery of spending more than a couple-three hundred. As you have found, they "job" out to many subs, making replacement parts a real treasure hunt. Wrenches, hammers, screwdrivers, you can't beat them when you catch a sale. If I'm spending $1000, I want a company that has been in business for a while and looks like it's staying around, so I can get parts when I need them.
              Blacksmith
              Stickmate LX AC/DC
              Big cheap (Chinese) Anvil
              Hand cranked coal forge
              Freon bottle propane forge
              HH 210 and bottle of C25

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by Dan View Post
                The Millermatic Vintage and Ironman 230 both offer 12 output voltage taps to choose from. .

                The Miller offers a switch under the cover to get to 6 of the taps. Been a while since I looked at one, but somewhat weird anyway. MM-200 transformer in them. Really only a stop gap machine,because of killing the MM-200, and making the MM-250. It really was never quite a MM-200 either. I would go with a Hobart 230, or a used Migmaster 250/275
                Esab 2200 AC/DC
                Thermal 211i
                Thermal Pee-wee 85s
                Smith O/A plus mini torch
                Smith machine torch
                LN-25 pro
                LF-72 feeder
                Edwards 65 ton
                5X10 CNC table
                Victor A-120
                Miller Shopmate 300DX
                S-74D feeder




                Remember good judgment comes from experience, experience comes from bad judgment.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by Brand X View Post
                  The Miller offers a switch under the cover to get to 6 of the taps. Been a while since I looked at one, but somewhat weird anyway. MM-200 transformer in them. Really only a stop gap machine,because of killing the MM-200, and making the MM-250. It really was never quite a MM-200 either. I would go with a Hobart 230, or a used Migmaster 250/275
                  The Vintage had to be better then the Millermatic 250. It has probably been at least two years since I last ran the Millermatic 250 at work, so I pretty much have forgot what I am missing by not having ran it for such a long time. Everything at work for quite some time has been TIG (Squarewave 175, Precision TIG 225, and TA 201), so it has probably been at least a year since I last ran the Millermatic 185.

                  Anyway, If we're adding a Migmaster 250/275 to the discussion, as long as it was in good condition, I'd go with the Migmaster over the Ironman 230 or Vintage.
                  Attached Files
                  MigMaster 250- Smooth arc with a good touch of softness to it. Good weld puddle wetout. Light spatter producer.
                  Ironman 230 - Soft arc with a touch of agressiveness to it. Very good weld puddle wet out. Light spatter producer.


                  PM 180C



                  HH 125 EZ - impressive little fluxcore only unit

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Seems like one is missing??

                    I had no idea you could still buy these welders..

                    http://www.brweldingsupplies.com/sho...n-made-new.cfm
                    Esab 2200 AC/DC
                    Thermal 211i
                    Thermal Pee-wee 85s
                    Smith O/A plus mini torch
                    Smith machine torch
                    LN-25 pro
                    LF-72 feeder
                    Edwards 65 ton
                    5X10 CNC table
                    Victor A-120
                    Miller Shopmate 300DX
                    S-74D feeder




                    Remember good judgment comes from experience, experience comes from bad judgment.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      everyone,
                      thanks for your help on this... was really curious who made that craftsman welder... looks like i'll pass on the vintage and for sure go with the ironman 230 as it seems a lot of stuff will interchange from the millers.. and since we have millers at work!!! if i need stuff i'll have access.. tips,nozzles,liners etc.....!!!
                      amazon had it for 1399.00 free shipping and no taxes.. was hoping they might drop a few more dollars and they bumped it back up to 1549.00 so i'll be patient till they drop it back to 1399.00 again...
                      will post pics when i do make the purchase.. which hopefully will be in a wk or 2...
                      again i appreciate everyone's input very much...

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by vernons View Post
                        everyone,
                        thanks for your help on this... was really curious who made that craftsman welder... looks like i'll pass on the vintage and for sure go with the ironman 230 as it seems a lot of stuff will interchange from the millers.. and since we have millers at work!!! if i need stuff i'll have access.. tips,nozzles,liners etc.....!!!
                        amazon had it for 1399.00 free shipping and no taxes.. was hoping they might drop a few more dollars and they bumped it back up to 1549.00 so i'll be patient till they drop it back to 1399.00 again...
                        will post pics when i do make the purchase.. which hopefully will be in a wk or 2...
                        again i appreciate everyone's input very much...
                        There's a rumor of a Miller price increase at the end of this week. In the past Hobart prices have usually increased too. Cyberweld.com has the Ironman 230 for $1430 with free shipping.
                        MigMaster 250- Smooth arc with a good touch of softness to it. Good weld puddle wetout. Light spatter producer.
                        Ironman 230 - Soft arc with a touch of agressiveness to it. Very good weld puddle wet out. Light spatter producer.


                        PM 180C



                        HH 125 EZ - impressive little fluxcore only unit

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          CK Systematics they have made Snap On Branded MIG welders for years.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Brand X View Post
                            Seems like one is missing??

                            I had no idea you could still buy these welders..

                            http://www.brweldingsupplies.com/sho...n-made-new.cfm
                            If you look closely at the Handler unit on the black cart, you'll see that it is a 187. My friend from work has that unit now. I have a Handler 210 MVP sitting on that cart now. It's a nice unit, but I still liked that Handler 187 better.

                            The CK 175 isn't in that picture, because it is at my Dad's. He demanded that I keep one unit at his place so that I had wire machine around there for doing weld repairs for him and his neighbor. Out of all the units I have, it's probably my least favorite anyway. I produces a very crisp arc. As you are more than likely aware a real crisp arc is touchy about getting dialed in to a low spatter level, and weld puddle wet out tends to be on the sluggish side. I had limited experience with units (college classes only) when I purchased it. If we had been taught about how differently units can perform based on the slope and inductance back then I would have saved up a little longer and purchased a MM 200 or Migmaster 250 back then. I paid $999 for the CK 175 back in 1991. If I remember correctly, the CK 250 was in the $1300 - $1400. I was an impatient 23 year old, because if I had awaited 2 more weeks I'd had the money to purchase the 250 instead of the 175.
                            MigMaster 250- Smooth arc with a good touch of softness to it. Good weld puddle wetout. Light spatter producer.
                            Ironman 230 - Soft arc with a touch of agressiveness to it. Very good weld puddle wet out. Light spatter producer.


                            PM 180C



                            HH 125 EZ - impressive little fluxcore only unit

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Dan, if you don't mind, do you have any experience with the Ironman 210? I have the least experience with MIG but I've used a buds HH140 and it seemed like it was easier to get good results with it vs the IM210, within current limitations of course. With more practice maybe I'll dial it in better but the HH140 was hard to fault. Having more taps couldn't hurt like the IM230 which seems to be well-received on the forums. Both were with C25 and if I recall, Radnor 0.030 wire and welding flat.
                              CanoeCruiser
                              Harris dual-stage O/A
                              Lincoln AC/DC buzzbox
                              Hobart IronMan 210
                              Lincoln PowerMig 135
                              Miller 3035 spoolgun
                              Thermal Arc 185
                              Thermadyne Cutmaster 52
                              Angle grinders, vicegrips, the usual suspects
                              Two hands, tired body, not enough time...

                              Comment

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