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Flow Rate for c25??

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  • Flow Rate for c25??

    Hey everyone, Merry Christmas! I have a question for the experienced guys... I've been practicing lately and am getting much better looking welds (after a little "class" from a friend who is much more experienced...) I'm welding .125 2X4 mild steel to make a table framework. I'm using a HH140 with my settings at 40 and a feed rate of about 30, using C25 gas. Pretty happy with the results for the most part, but I'm still getting some pitting on the weld surface. Could my gas flow rate be the problem? I'm at about 25 cfm. I made sure the surfaces were completely clean & shiny before starting.

    Thanks for any info you can give, and have a great Holiday season!
    --John

  • #2
    Indoors with still air? Try 15-17 CFH.

    See http://www.hobartwelders.com/weldtal...ad.php?t=27172
    --- RJL ----------------------------------------------

    Ordinarily I'm insane, but I have lucid moments when I'm merely stupid.
    -------------------------

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    • #3
      The 20-CFH "ballpark" figure has been the norm forever, it seems. If wind is not an issue, I've been able to weld just fine at flows as low as 7-CFH.

      The evidence of lack of shielding gas is a porous (pitted) weld bead. The best way to know what that looks like is to shut of your cylinder valve and run a bead. Once you've seen the crappy result, you'll alwyas know if you have a gas issue.

      Is the "pitting" you mention realy pitting or just spatter? Fine tune the wire speed a bit, both up and down, and see what you get.

      Hank
      ...from the Gadget Garage
      MM 210 w/3035, BWE
      HH 210 w/DP 3035
      TA185TSW
      Victor O/A "J" series, SuperRange
      Avatar courtesy of Bob Sigmon...

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      • #4
        I use 20.....
        Esab Multimaster 260 Sweet machine!
        Thermal Arc Arc Master, Don't use it much just got a heck of a deal on this unit
        Don't talk about it, be about it.

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        • #5
          Thank you

          I appreciate the input, gentlemen. I'll do some 'sperimenting and see what works. Hank, the weld bead looks pitted, like it has tiny holes in it. I'll see if I can't take a photo and figure out how to upload it...

          Thanks again!

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          • #6
            I use you setting for straight CO2. Try WS 25 or so. THe chart on the door was pretty close when I was running C25 a year or so back.
            Rick in Arkansas
            www.spider-webdesign.net
            www.ironsidewelding.com

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            • #7
              Originally posted by jag23 View Post
              Hank, the weld bead looks pitted, like it has tiny holes in it. I'll see if I can't take a photo and figure out how to upload it...

              Thanks again!
              That does sound like a shielding gas problem. Make sure the MIG gun is fully seated in the gun block. If it is even slightly forward of fully seated, the shielding gas ports may become exposed and you'll loose gas.

              You should be able to hear a low hiss if you put the gun nozzle close to your ear and pull the trigger.

              Hank
              ...from the Gadget Garage
              MM 210 w/3035, BWE
              HH 210 w/DP 3035
              TA185TSW
              Victor O/A "J" series, SuperRange
              Avatar courtesy of Bob Sigmon...

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by hankj View Post
                You should be able to hear a low hiss if you put the gun nozzle close to your ear and pull the trigger.
                You might want to dial down the wire speed to 0 before you do that!

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by hankj View Post
                  That does sound like a shielding gas problem. Make sure the MIG gun is fully seated in the gun block. If it is even slightly forward of fully seated, the shielding gas ports may become exposed and you'll loose gas.

                  You should be able to hear a low hiss if you put the gun nozzle close to your ear and pull the trigger.

                  Hank
                  Hank, what exactly do you mean by the MIG gun being fully seated in the gun block? I'm not familiar with this. Also, I was getting quite a bit of debris in the end of the gun, that I would have to tap out every 6" of weld length or so.
                  Thanks,

                  John

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by jag23 View Post
                    Hank, what exactly do you mean by the MIG gun being fully seated in the gun block? I'm not familiar with this. Also, I was getting quite a bit of debris in the end of the gun, that I would have to tap out every 6" of weld length or so.
                    Thanks,

                    John
                    John,

                    If you open the wire drive door, you'll see the MIG gun block at the bottom right. It's the fitting where the MIG gun comes through the front of the cabinet and connects to the wire drive.

                    There is a set screw that tightens down on the gun's back end to hold it in place. On the back end of the gun there are O-ring seals that seal the shielding gas connection when the gun is fully inserted in the wire drive block. If the gun is allowed to sit slightly formard of its seated position, the gas can escape.

                    The wire drive components are detailed in the owner's manual.

                    Hank
                    ...from the Gadget Garage
                    MM 210 w/3035, BWE
                    HH 210 w/DP 3035
                    TA185TSW
                    Victor O/A "J" series, SuperRange
                    Avatar courtesy of Bob Sigmon...

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Just thought I'd mention that "too high" a gas flow can be as bad as "too low". Too much flow creates turbulance which brings in outside air, thereby contaminating the bead.

                      On the smaller migs with C25 and welding inside (little/no air flow) you should be able to get by with 10-15 CFH.

                      Really pretty easy to dial in. Start at about 15 and dial down the CFH. When you start to see porosity in the bead, increase the flow by about 3-5 CFH and you're done.
                      SundownIII

                      Syncrowave 250DX, Tigrunner
                      Dynasty 200 DX w/CM 3
                      MM 251 w/30 A SG
                      HH 187 Mig
                      XMT 304 w/714D Feeder & Optima Pulser
                      Dialarc 250 w/HF 15-1
                      Hypertherm PM 1250 Plasma
                      Victor, Harris, and Smith O/A
                      PC Dry Cut Saw and (just added) Wilton (7x12) BS
                      Mil Mod 6370-21 Metal Cut Saw
                      More grinders than hands (Makita & Dewalt)
                      Grizzly 6"x48" Belt Sander
                      Access to full fab shop w/CNC Plasma & Waterjet
                      Gas mixers (Smith(2) and Thermco)
                      Miller BWE and BWE Dig

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                      • #12
                        Hey, thanks so much, Hank and Sundown. I'll check the gun block (I know what you're talking about now) and I will also try the 10-15 flow rate. I've got some time this afternoon to play around with it, so I'll see what I can come up with! You guys have a great weekend.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Anyone use a 3/8 tapered nozzle with HH187?

                          Originally posted by SundownIII View Post
                          Just thought I'd mention that "too high" a gas flow can be as bad as "too low". Too much flow creates turbulance which brings in outside air, thereby contaminating the bead.

                          On the smaller migs with C25 and welding inside (little/no air flow) you should be able to get by with 10-15 CFH.

                          Really pretty easy to dial in. Start at about 15 and dial down the CFH. When you start to see porosity in the bead, increase the flow by about 3-5 CFH and you're done.
                          I just purchased a HH187 and like the unit alot. I am now looking for a tapered nozzle to fit on the Miller M-10 gun that came with the Hobart. I have heard that tapered nozzles cause turbulence near the weld pool but I have not experienced such turbulence with my old Maxus 140amp mig.
                          So my question to those who have a HH187, has anyone found a 3/8 or 11/32 bore tapered nozzle to fit the gun? Do you experience poor welds because of the small nozzle bore ? If not, where did you find the tapered nozzle so I can buy one for my setup?

                          Hobbyweld...

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                          • #14
                            Originally posted by hobbyweld View Post
                            I just purchased a HH187 and like the unit alot. I am now looking for a tapered nozzle to fit on the Miller M-10 gun <SNIP> with my old Maxus 140amp mig.
                            What's wrong with the Hobart nozzle? Does it work? Then run it and quit worrying about what was on a Maxxus...
                            Trailblazer 302 * Millermatic 212 * Syncrowave 180SD * X-Treme 12VS Feeder * Spoolmate 3035
                            Thermal Dynamics Cutmaster 52 Plasma * Lincoln 175 MIG

                            Victor Superrange II * Victor Journeyman

                            Hobart HH 125EZ


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                            • #15
                              I have had crappy Chinese steel cause issues even with proper parameters,proper gas flow and no issues with wire.
                              Not saying his problem is not gas flow,just looking outside the box.
                              Last edited by vwguy3; 12-17-2009, 01:39 PM. Reason: CMA

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