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  • 1st post - HH187 or HH210?

    I'm looking at HH187 @ $600 (local) vs. HH210 w/spoolgun @ $899 (Northern Tool).

    Seems like 210 w/spoolgun is the better deal, although I have no immediate plans to weld aluminum. Higher amp, better duty cycle, etc.

    My previous welding experience has been with my 30 year old AC Hobart 180 stick machine.

    I think I'll use it mostly for 1/8" to 3/8" steel. I never was good enough with the stick to weld thinner stuff, but that would be something I could play on with MIG.

    Any reason not to go with the HH210, other than saving a little $$$?

    Great board, thanks.

  • #2
    If you can afford the 210, it's always better to get more power. The 210 is able to weld bigger stuff, but has the delicacy to hit the real thin stuff, too. I'm going to be upgrading soon, as well, and the 210 is the way I'm going.

    Even if you don't need the spool gun right away, it's nice to be prepared. I like the option.
    Millermatic 135 110v .030 Flux-Core Wire

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    • #3
      If you can afford it then I would buy the HH210. The 210 is a nice machine.
      Esab Multimaster 260 Sweet machine!
      Thermal Arc Arc Master, Don't use it much just got a heck of a deal on this unit
      Don't talk about it, be about it.

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      • #4
        For mild steel, the HH 187 is the better 3/16" and thinner unit. Where as the HH 210 is the better 1/4" and 3/8" unit. I'm not stating the HH 210 is a bad 3/16" and thinner unit, just that the HH 187 is the better of the two on this thickness range. Step up to a Ironman 230, and you'll get a unit that is very good on thin ga -3/8".

        If you go with the HH 210 I doubt you'd be disappointed with it on 1/8" - 3/8" mild steel. However, considering I dislike, standard wire feed for aluminum, if my real world needs were 1/4" and thinner mild steel, more than likely I'd go with the HH 187 over the HH 210.

        As much as I dislike aluminum wire feed, if I ever had a need to weld aluminum, I'd more than likely finally purchase a TIG unit with AC output.

        For the average weekend hobbyist, I really don't even consider the duty cycle of either unit an issue. I've worked a HH 187 pretty hard, at a hobbyist level, on 1/4" mild steel and the unit never shutdown. The air blowing out of the back of the unit was barely warm. By pretty hard at a hobbyist level, I mean a good dozen plus back to back 3" - 4" long beads with the voltage selector switch set to output range #7. Understand, the advertised duty cycle on these two units is established by running the unit in an enviroment where the temperature is 104º F. So, if the room temp in my work shop is around 65ºF, the HH 187 or HH 210 are going to have a better duty cycle then advertised.
        MigMaster 250- Smooth arc with a good touch of softness to it. Good weld puddle wetout. Light spatter producer.
        Ironman 230 - Soft arc with a touch of agressiveness to it. Very good weld puddle wet out. Light spatter producer.


        PM 180C



        HH 125 EZ - impressive little fluxcore only unit

        Comment


        • #5
          I picked up the HH-187 two weeks ago and finally finished wiring the garage for 220v last night.

          I won't be able to fire it up until the weekend though... report will follow.

          Comment


          • #6
            My perspective

            The reason the 187 is a little better on the thin stuff is that the 187 and 210 is basically the same design. They both have the same amount of tap settings. If they would have added another tap for the upper end on the 210, that would have been cake (probably the reason the 230 has a good review).

            I went back and forth before I bought mine. Then back and forth again..

            I went with the 210 because I am a home hobbiest that likes to build and repair stuff. I am also on a limited budget. IMO, the 210 is a great little all in one welder. Its good on thin stuff and on thick stuff. It has an inexpensive spool gun (which I have) to weld alum. I mostly weld steel but I am trying alum now to practice. It comes in handy to be able to fix stuff or build something that needs to be light and water resistant. I plan on getting a pontoon boat with is all alum.

            One day, I would love to have multiple welders like some of the folks on this site, but right now, the 210 has been great for everything I need to make or fix.

            Next on my list is a good air compressor, piper bender, notcher and table saw (list goes on and on).
            Mike

            HH210 & 3035 Spool Gun
            HTP 221 Tig
            Powermax 30 plasma
            HF bandsaw
            HF hood

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            • #7
              Originally posted by mikeb9550 View Post
              The reason the 187 is a little better on the thin stuff is that the 187 and 210 is basically the same design. They both have the same amount of tap settings. If they would have added another tap for the upper end on the 210, that would have been cake (probably the reason the 230 has a good review).

              I went back and forth before I bought mine. Then back and forth again..

              I went with the 210 because I am a home hobbiest that likes to build and repair stuff. I am also on a limited budget. IMO, the 210 is a great little all in one welder. Its good on thin stuff and on thick stuff. It has an inexpensive spool gun (which I have) to weld alum. I mostly weld steel but I am trying alum now to practice. It comes in handy to be able to fix stuff or build something that needs to be light and water resistant. I plan on getting a pontoon boat with is all alum.

              One day, I would love to have multiple welders like some of the folks on this site, but right now, the 210 has been great for everything I need to make or fix.

              Next on my list is a good air compressor, piper bender, notcher and table saw (list goes on and on).
              Mike,

              The HH 210 is a pretty good unit. It definitely would have been an even better unit with a couple more output ranges to choose from. However, my number 1 reason for prefering the HH 187 over the HH 210 has to due with the fact that the HH 187 arc is a little cleaner then the HH 210 arc. Please don't interpret this to mean that the HH 210 produces a poor quality arc, because the reality is that both units produce a very good arc with real good weld puddle wet out. Both units contain the same choke design and filter capacitor. The one main design difference between them is the fact that the HH 187 is a wire speed tracking unit; whereas, the HH 210 isn't. I suspect this is the factor that makes the HH 187 produce a little nicer arc then the HH 210
              MigMaster 250- Smooth arc with a good touch of softness to it. Good weld puddle wetout. Light spatter producer.
              Ironman 230 - Soft arc with a touch of agressiveness to it. Very good weld puddle wet out. Light spatter producer.


              PM 180C



              HH 125 EZ - impressive little fluxcore only unit

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by Dan View Post
                Mike,

                The HH 210 is a pretty good unit. It definitely would have been an even better unit with a couple more output ranges to choose from. However, my number 1 reason for prefering the HH 187 over the HH 210 has to due with the fact that the HH 187 arc is a little cleaner then the HH 210 arc. Please don't interpret this to mean that the HH 210 produces a poor quality arc, because the reality is that both units produce a very good arc with real good weld puddle wet out. Both units contain the same choke design and filter capacitor. The one main design difference between them is the fact that the HH 187 is a wire speed tracking unit; whereas, the HH 210 isn't. I suspect this is the factor that makes the HH 187 produce a little nicer arc then the HH 210

                I didnt realize that the wire tracking was different. You do know your way around these little welders. Sorry if my typed words came off a little wrong. I know you think the 210 is a good machine. I just wish they would have had the 187 spool gun ready. It would have made my decision a lot easier.
                Mike

                HH210 & 3035 Spool Gun
                HTP 221 Tig
                Powermax 30 plasma
                HF bandsaw
                HF hood

                Comment


                • #9
                  Spoolgun for HH187???

                  Hi Guys,

                  I'm new here, and interested in getting the HH187 or HH210. I'm wondering if it's worth paying $300 more for HH210 with spoolgun, especially if HH187 has the "nicer arc."

                  Is it possible to outfit the HH187 with a spoolgun later if I decide to weld aluminum?

                  Thanks.

                  FiremanBill

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Fireman Bill View Post
                    Hi Guys,

                    I'm new here, and interested in getting the HH187 or HH210. I'm wondering if it's worth paying $300 more for HH210 with spoolgun, especially if HH187 has the "nicer arc."

                    Is it possible to outfit the HH187 with a spoolgun later if I decide to weld aluminum?

                    Thanks.

                    FiremanBill
                    Remember that Dan's 187 had a better arc then his 210. That does not mean that his 187 is better then all HH-210 machines built in the arc department. I had two 210 and one was better then the other. I know Dan has had two 187 machines and one was better then the other one also. I would not have a problem owning either machine. Aluminum welding, the HH-210 has it all over a HH-187

                    No retro on the spool-gun for the HH-187

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Scott -

                      Thanks for that info. Just came back from having a look at prices, and thinking maybe I ought to go with the 210 w/spoolgun after all. Ebay had listings for spoolgun adapter kits ($99) which are supposed to work with the H187, but when you add that to the price of a 10' spoolgun, you've more than made up for the difference in price.

                      I am looking forward to learning a lot from you folks. Anxious to get the Mig machine here in the shop, and start building my skills!

                      FiremanBill

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        All of these machines work well, one thing to remember is that Dan is super critical, light years beyond noticing any differences that any amateur ever would,,, or even most of us for that matter. I never have really notice much difference between welders. If you would be looking for differences they would likely be more pronounced though in these smaller feeders provided the operator knew or cared above average.
                        Every career has an average skill, most people fall within some parameters, average is probably competent. We hear a lot of talk about pipeline, etc but not all of them are keen pros and a lot somehow seem to be working. But being a specialist the best of them can tell some difference. Lots of room for opinion in there too.
                        Those guys are in their own world so there are the rest of us, the machine isn't so critical to some extent. I ran dozens, probably hundreds of different machines, even on billions dollar job, I never give it a second thought unless there was something wrong with it (90% of the time a poor connector), the machine will usually out perform the operator level or willingness.
                        In theory a machine with 3 ph in or inverter, or motor generator should work significantly better than my AC/DC buzzer but the difference isn't night and day. Same with the little feeders, a couple more gears might not hurt the 210 but not enough reason not to buy one. Not so as I would want an infinite adjustment, not so much as to want auto sets, seems to just make more complicated?
                        http://www.facebook.com/cary.urka.urkafarms

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                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Scott V View Post
                          Remember that Dan's 187 had a better arc then his 210. That does not mean that his 187 is better then all HH-210 machines built in the arc department. I had two 210 and one was better then the other. I know Dan has had two 187 machines and one was better then the other one also. I would not have a problem owning either machine. Aluminum welding, the HH-210 has it all over a HH-187

                          No retro on the spool-gun for the HH-187
                          Until I recently returned the Ironman 230, most of my welding, at home, for this year had been with it. So, this past Friday and Saturday I decide to play with my HH 187 and the loaner HH 210. Friday I tried out a roll of .030 Hobart farm store wire, and a roll of .030 Hobart HB-28 on 1/8" material. Both of these rolls had been purchased to run on the IM 230. So, until Friday I'd never ran either roll on the Handler units. Both of these wires took some bite (drive, crispness) out of the arc of both units, resulting in me having to run one output range higher than usual, to get the weld to burn in the way I like it to on a T joint. For a lap joint I was able to use the output range that I typically have the units set at for with this joint design on 1/8”. I have to admit, this ended up being the first time were I was favoring the HH 210 over the HH 187 on 1/8”.

                          Being somewhat disappointed with the results from Friday evening, I decided to go with a roll of .030 Radnor on Saturday. This roll of wire gave the HH 187 the peppy arc with very good weld puddle wet out, that I typical see out of the unit on 1/8”, with the unit set to output range #4. The HH 210 performed well with the voltage selector switch set to output range #3. Meaning the HH 210 performed similar to the 187; however, it was obvious that the 187 was outputting a slightly higher power level. Why I state it was obvious was because the HH 187 arc had a little more dig to it, and the weld puddle wet out a little quicker. The results I was seeing had me back to favoring the HH 187 on 1/8”.

                          In the end, I definitely preferred the result that both units were producing with the Radnor wire.
                          Last edited by Dan; 11-25-2009, 10:37 AM.
                          MigMaster 250- Smooth arc with a good touch of softness to it. Good weld puddle wetout. Light spatter producer.
                          Ironman 230 - Soft arc with a touch of agressiveness to it. Very good weld puddle wet out. Light spatter producer.


                          PM 180C



                          HH 125 EZ - impressive little fluxcore only unit

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Dan,
                            your post pretty much says it all. Wire brand-individual roll, Machine, Input power,all can play are roll in what works best.

                            I know you can spend a whole lot more and not get a better short arc machine.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              I just clicked buy on the HH210....I have been trying to make the same decision with and threw in the MM211 as well....I am a rank amateur, hobbist that doesn't weld on a daily basis so take my comments with that in mind.

                              My feeling was I need to work with AL almost as often as steel, I don't have a TIG (even if I could have one I don't really have the electrical supply for it so it becomes a big deal to go that route) This left me with thinking the higher power HH210 or MM 211 with spool gun would really be the only way I would get AL work done....the HH187 could probably also do light AL but the spool setup is more money and my limited experience with AL says the 210 class will certainly be better for that application. So now Miller or Hobart...I am convinced the autoset might be good enough for me on steel but I think I can set it myself with some practice and it won't work on AL so there goes the usefulness of that feature much of the time. The infinite adjust and the 120V operations were also very attractive....but I decided I will rarely NEED 120V though it might be nice sometimes and the infinite adjust seemed less rugged and more prone to failure than taps and probably beyond my ability to get any better than the tap....I will have to wait and see if I can do some lighter stuff with the HH210 as that ended up being my biggest worry about not having the ability to dial it back as closely as the miller....

                              Hopefully I made the right choice....best of luck with yours.

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