battery powered mig

[metalmeltr]

i saw hobart's new battery powered mig welder today i thoughrt the idea was interesting but has anyone used this? does any one plan to get one, iask since i am wondering how well it actually works

[J0K3R-X]

Wow, that is very cool!!! Looks like it would work good!? I know it is using inverter technology so the batteries should power it just fine, great idea!!! Plus it can be run on standard power. Looks like it would be good for very small jobs since it states that it will run for 4 minutes @ 120 amps and 2 minutes @ 180 amps. The price is the kicker $1,818.00! Too rich for my blood! Better off getting a Ready Welder II and a couple deep cycle marine batteries for remote stuff. Plus the Ready Welder has tons more power and will run alot longer, just my opinion. A little heavier than 50lbs but a little less heavy on the bank!

[Hobart Expert Darrell]

The $1800 price is the list price. The Trek 180 will retail at a much more reasonable price (around $1399):

http://www.northerntool.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/product_6970_200390405_200390405

The Northern Tool product description is a little flawed. Here's the real description:

Running from the batteries (cordless), the Trek 180 will deliver 180 amps for 2 arc minutes and maintain a constant voltage. It will deliver 120 amps for 4 arc minutes.

When the battery reaches the low voltage point, it can be recharged from a standard 115 volt receptacle. It'll draw a maximum of 12 amps during the recharge. The unit will reach an 80% charge in 20 minutes (enough for a single cycle weld if necessary) and a full charge in 90 minutes. If the Trek 180 is being used on the trail where no wall power is available, it can be powered from a simple 115V inverter. A minimum inverter output rating of 400W is recommended (costs approximately $39). A 1500W inverter allows the unit to charge faster. If a lower powered inverter is being used, the Trek has intelligent circuitry that will recognize the capability of the power source and won't try to draw too much power from it, which prevents damage to the lower-powered devices.

The weld output is controlled by inverter arc technology, so the output remains constant regardless of the state of charge of the batteries. The weld arc has the extremely smooth arc characteristic of an inverter power source.

Other welders, such as the spool gun type, have the output change as the battery voltage droops which necessitates constant wire speed adjustment and varying states of weld penetration. Another flaw of spool gun type welders is that when connected to two batteries, they're running from 24 volts. This is too much voltage for flux-cored wire which typically has a maximum voltage limit of 19.5 volts. When the batteries drop too low, a point is reached where you don't get enough penetration. Also, I've been out on the trail many times and I've yet to find anyone who is willing to take two batteries out of their vehicle to power a spool gun weld set-up. It's a hassle to remove batteries that are bolted down to keep them in the vehicle, not to mention the risk of draining the batteries and not being able to start the vehicle back up.

The Trek 180 will also work back in the shop or garage once you're off the trail with either flux-cored wire or with solid wire and mixed shielding gas. Just plug it into a standard 115V receptacle and you now have the most powerful 115V welder available on the market! You can weld at an output of 180 amps and only draw 12 amps from the 115V service! An bonus feature to this is that you can run this off a long (100 ft., 200 ft., etc.) extension cord without affecting the weld output. the 115V service runs the built-in battery charger which supply power to the batteries, the batteries deliver power to the weld. In this mode, the welder works on a duty cycle basis ([email protected]% duty cycle, [email protected]% duty cycle). This means the welder can weld for two minutes and then recharge for 8 minutes to allow an output of 120 amps on a continuous basis.

All of these features are packaged in a small, robust, self-contained package that can be carried in a vehicle (Jeep, truck, 4 wheeler, etc.) and be ready to weld as soon as it's pulled out of the vehicle.

I hope this helps to explain some of the benefits of the Trek 180 battery-powered welder.

Darrell

[Scott V]

Darrell,
how does it work with C02 gas?? As well as the Passport?? Will the machine support a DP type Spool-gun like a Passport plus or is their a TREC plus down the road.

[Hobart Expert Darrell]

Darrell,
how does it work with C02 gas?? As well as the Passport?? Will the machine support a DP type Spool-gun like a Passport plus or is their a TREC plus down the road.

When used with shielding gas, we recommend a mixed gas (C25). Since this is a two battery system that has an inverter technology control on the output, the voltage isn't quite high enough for us to recommend CO2 since you need around 23 to 24V to really run CO2 and maintain a stable arc. We wanted to keep the Trek 180 really small, portable, and focused on the trail fix outdoor application, so we taylored the arc to perform extremely well with self-shielded wire (flux-cored) which also performs extremely well with C25 gas and solid wire back in the shop/garage. It has the same arc quality as the Passport for those familiar with that machine.

Trek Plus (good name, by the way) - yes, if/when we proceed with a next generation unit, we'll work on all of the features that all of you (our customers) tell us are important for the next generation battery-powered welder. We actually listen (read in the case of Weld Talk) to what you guys are saying, check out the features of the IronMan 230 and then read what some of you posted in the past as to what you would like to see in the IronMan product.

Good question!

Darrell

[Dan]

Darrell,

Looking though the Owners Manual this morning, it looks like the largest roll of wire that the unit will accept is a 4" diameter roll. Is this correct?

[Hotfoot]

HOBART EXPERT DARYL says:

"The Trek 180 will also work back in the shop or garage once you're off the trail with either flux-cored wire or with solid wire and mixed shielding gas. Just plug it into a standard 115V receptacle and you now have the most powerful 115V welder available on the market! You can weld at an output of 180 amps and only draw 12 amps from the 115V service!"

Does this perhaps foretell a "Super 110" unit in the future, or is this ability tied to the on-board battery system, and cannot be achieved without it?

[ace4059]

I am a little confused on how this unit works when it is plugged into the wall. So when you have it plugged in, does it still run off the batteries and the reason it is plugged in, is to keep them charged? Or does it just run off of the power from the wall and bypasses the batteries?

Second, What do you do when the batteries "die" and will no longer hold a charge. Can you replace them, or is the entire machine "no good".

[usmcpop]

You can't suck more Watts out of the wall outlet than it's willing to put out. Let's say at 180 Amps, 20 arc volts you'd need 3600 Watts. Divide that by 120 volts (assuming 100% efficiency) and you have 30 A. Admittedly a gross simplification, but you can see the picture. Add inefficiency, the fan and wire feeder motor and there you go. Batteries need to be included.

[Hobart Expert Keith]

To answer some of the questions to the previous posts....

The unit, while plugged into the wall is still operating from battery power. By plugging the unit in you allow the built in charger to continually charge the batteries while welding. The chargers current draw is limited to 12 amps. In short, the weld power is always coming from the batteries. Theoretically, if the output does not exceed the charge rate the unit will never shut down. The Trek has a duty cycle when plugged in just like any other welder as Darrell stated in an earlier post.

The batteries are replaceable and should be replaced(if ever) with the correct style and A/hr battery to allow the unit to maintain its performance.
To optimize battery life it's recommended that the unit remain plugged in when not in use as the built in charger maintains power to the battery to keep them fresh(trickle charge).

Keith

[Hotfoot]

I will have to say that every battery powered tool I have had with rechargeables eventually saw batteries slowly lose ability to hold a charge...and then discovered that the batteries cost about as much as the tool did...What is the current price for replacement batteries for this welder?

[Hobart Expert Darrell]

Darrell,

Looking though the Owners Manual this morning, it looks like the largest roll of wire that the unit will accept is a 4" diameter roll. Is this correct?

Hi Dan,

Yes, that's correct. The Trek 180 uses the 4" spools. This is driven by the need to keep the machine as small as possible for portability and storage in an off-road vehicle.

Darrell

[Hobart Expert Darrell]

I am a little confused on how this unit works when it is plugged into the wall. So when you have it plugged in, does it still run off the batteries and the reason it is plugged in, is to keep them charged? Or does it just run off of the power from the wall and bypasses the batteries?

Second, What do you do when the batteries "die" and will no longer hold a charge. Can you replace them, or is the entire machine "no good".

When plugged into the wall, the weld circuit is powered by the batteries. The on-board battery charger is supplying power to the batteries (charging them).

For example, if you're welding 1/8" material (120A), you can weld for two solid arc minutes. The batteries are supplying the power to the arc during this time. During the 8 minutes of the 10 minute duty cycle, the on-board battery charger charges the batteries back up for the next cycle.

If you put more energy into the arc than you allow the battery charger to put back into the batteries, the batteries will reach a low voltage point and the battery monitoring circuit will recognize this and indicate "Low Battery" on the front panel and shut down the weld circuit and begin the charge cycle.

When the batteries wear out, they can be replaced. We recommend that they be replaced by the same high performance batteries that was originally supplied with the welder. They are a custom thin plate pure lead acid valve regulated absorbed glass matt design that can withstand the high current requirements of the welding arc and the high current fast charging circuit in the Trek.

Darrell

[Hobart Expert Darrell]

You can't suck more Watts out of the wall outlet than it's willing to put out. Let's say at 180 Amps, 20 arc volts you'd need 3600 Watts. Divide that by 120 volts (assuming 100% efficiency) and you have 30 A. Admittedly a gross simplification, but you can see the picture. Add inefficiency, the fan and wire feeder motor and there you go. Batteries need to be included.

You're thinking in transformer terms.

The energy source for the welding arc are the batteries. The batteries supply the energy to the welding arc. At the 180 amp, 19.5 volt setting, the welder can operate at a 12% duty cycle on a continuous basis.

The on-board charger recharges the batteries. The 115V supply isn't delivering the total energy to the welding arc during the weld cycle.

The welder absolutely CAN deliver 180 amps to the welding arc, maintain a constant voltage without droop, and still only draw 12 amps off the 115V input line.

This is an entirely new breed of welder.

Darrell

[Scott V]

It might sell to a lot of people being as small as you can make it. Bet it would sell to a whole lot more if it could use a 8'' spool of wire. The one thing I liked about my Esab Mutimaster 160 was the ability to run 12'' spools of wire. It was a advantage over the passport I owned. I think you should design a option/ way to add a spool off the back, for the home guys. I dislike the way 4'' spools run wire on most machines I have used. Not knocking the machine because it's really cool idea as a welding unit.