Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

I-beam welding

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • I-beam welding

    I am putting the finishing touches on my house remodel, and need to weld 5 8 foot sections of Ibeams together, end to end. The welds are not structural, as the upper and lower flanges are held in alignment by plates. However, for robustness, I want to butt weld the beams together(in case something major happens, like a tornado, things will be more unitized.

    I want to stress that these welds are not relied upon for structural integrity.

    I have become reasonably proficient at welding horizontally, and have made things like a fork lift attachment for my tractor(that have held up when used to the limits of the tractor).

    The ibeams are in place(and part of the stucture of the house), and can't be moved.

    My plan is to spot weld a backing plate on the web of the ibeam at the joint, and make a full weld butt joint. On one of the beam joints, the spacing is 3/8inch. The ibeam steel thickness is 1/4".

    My questions are as follows:

    1) Can I fill the 3/8" gap by making several passes(cleaning the weld between each pass)?

    2) Does the backing plate have to be as thick as the web steel?

    3) This is a vertical weld, outside(windy). Do I start at the bottom or the top.

    I have a hh187, and plan to use .030 flux corred wire.

    Thanks for the help.

    Chris

  • #2
    You want to use a backing plate and weld from one side? If so, the plate doesn't need to be as thick as the web but you want to take it easy on the first pass. I'd weld that thing vertical up and make the first pass fast with an aggressive weave on that wide gap. If you feel more comfortable with stringers, by all means do that.

    Good luck.
    Two turn tables and a microphone.

    Comment


    • #3
      Pangea,

      Thanks for the help. That is what I needed to know.

      Chris

      Comment


      • #4
        Best of luck and let us know how it turns out. I am doing something similar on a large steel building, so I am interested to see pics when you finish. BTW, whereabouts is your location?
        Hobart IM210
        Lincoln 225 stick
        Hitachi chop saw
        Big 'ol Walker-Turner drill press w/ XY table
        8" x 12" HF lathe
        '86 Toyota 4WD welding rig with 10kw homebuilt Genset
        '76 M880 for the heavy stuff

        --The quickest way to double your money is to fold it in
        half and put it back in your pocket.

        Comment


        • #5
          Building Breathe (so to speak) and move. Not an engineer or knowing how they are intigrated into the structure of your house, but I would get a professional opinion before welding together and making solid connections. An option my be to bolt connector plates on both sides of the beams, this will tie them together and still allow them to flex with any natural expansion and contraction of your house.
          Snidley :}
          Here in the Great White North
          Mosquitoes can't fly at 40 below

          Comment


          • #6
            How to weld the joints isn't as important as Snidely's comment. Be sure that the joining of the beams doesn't create transfers of loads that defeat the building engineering.

            Hank
            ...from the Gadget Garage
            MM 210 w/3035, BWE
            HH 210 w/DP 3035
            TA185TSW
            Victor O/A "J" series, SuperRange
            Avatar courtesy of Bob Sigmon...

            Comment


            • #7
              While relevant critique/advice would have highlighted that coupled beams have different a different response to loads than individual beams, be assured that neither your, not that, contingency was overlooked. Houses are built on concrete foundations that certainly do not "breathe", unless i am mistaken.

              The beam was initially designed as a 24', and a 16' beam, but the discovery of the placement of the drainage field prevented the use the equipment necessary to safely install whole beams, so they were installed in segments.

              The design was good for both contingencies. I checked.

              If you use the appropriate bolts and plates, there is no difference in the stiffness between a bolt up joint, and a welded butt joint.

              At one point, this response was much sharper. I apologize if it is still to pointed, but I have had enough of this sort of thing today.

              Best Regards
              Chris.

              P.S. Thanks again, Pangea.

              Comment


              • #8
                Gee Chris! Lighten up a bit. You've been on here long enough to see that, as a group, Weld Talk tends to look at the "big picture" when giving answering questions. Often, things go unasked and somebody catches them and it turns out the OP never thought about it.

                Dave
                Still building my new old truck - see the progress!
                http://www.ford-trucks.com/forums/65...-coe-idea.html
                http://www.hobartwelders.com/weldtal...ad.php?t=27017

                Square Wave TIG 200 - Woot!
                MM180
                SP125+

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by dynasim View Post
                  While relevant critique/advice would have highlighted that coupled beams have different a different response to loads than individual beams, be assured that neither your, not that, contingency was overlooked. Houses are built on concrete foundations that certainly do not "breathe", unless i am mistaken.

                  The beam was initially designed as a 24', and a 16' beam, but the discovery of the placement of the drainage field prevented the use the equipment necessary to safely install whole beams, so they were installed in segments.

                  The design was good for both contingencies. I checked.

                  If you use the appropriate bolts and plates, there is no difference in the stiffness between a bolt up joint, and a welded butt joint.

                  At one point, this response was much sharper. I apologize if it is still to pointed, but I have had enough of this sort of thing today.

                  Best Regards
                  Chris.

                  P.S. Thanks again, Pangea.
                  Well,,,,,,,, sheesh!!!! If you were that dam smart anyway,,,,, why'd you have to come here and ask all us dummies how to do this???????

                  Just one comment. While many people post here, just to get a simple answer to fit their own simple little world,,,,,, you gotta understand, this is gonna be here for years to come. Maybe, someday, next week, next month, next year,,,,,, whatever,,, there's gonna be some poor dumb guy, searching around in these files, find this, then see Snidley's comment,,,,,, and think , "yeah, great idea!!!! Maybe I better get an engineer's opinion first!!!" This, more than anything else, is one of the big values of forums such as this,,,,, where you watch a conversation develop, see people bouncing ideas off each other, etc. etc.

                  One other thing ..... I , and nobody else here, really gives a rat's @ss about your "bad day" ..... take it out on your wife, beat the kids, kick the dog, whatever,,,, there's no excuse for bringing it here, I see some people actually tried helping you, which I haven't observed YOU doing for anybody else here?????????
                  *** Disclaimer ***

                  As I have no wish to toy with anybody's life, I suggest you take this and all other posts with a certain amount of skepticism. Carefully evaluate, and if necessary, research on your own any suggestions or advice you might pick up here, especially those from my posts, as I obviously haven't the skill and experience exhibited by some of the more illustrious and more successful members of this forum. I'm not responsible for anything I say, as I drank toxic water when young.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    I am not "that dam smart anyway,,,,,". I came here asking for advice about something I freely admitted I don't know enough about.

                    One person gave me great advice.

                    One person gave me some non-welding advice that wasn't relevant, and now I have to explain to my wife why it isn't.

                    One person said that my original question wasn't worth answering.

                    I love reading, learning, and interacting with knowledgable people who want to help. I love helping other people when I can.

                    The welding advice on this forum is top notch, but I have no need to go on a diet(to lighten up).

                    Finally, I didn't say I had a bad day. I said said I have had enough of this sort of thing. I was not the impolite one.

                    I just won't ask any more questions, and will figure out some other way to learn about this.

                    Adios
                    Chris


                    P.S. I have given advice on things that I am qualified to give advice about. I do this every time I get a chance. I make it a habit to not direct people to do things when I haven't the basis for doing so. That is a good habit. I am sorry that my puny contribution is not worthy.
                    Last edited by dynasim; 02-02-2009, 08:55 PM.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      I had to butt weld some I beams for an extension to my awning off my shop last year. I didn't do anything exotic, just welded them up.

                      You mentioned tornado, Did you visit Greensburg after the F 5 went through there?

                      I have and making it tornado resistant is just gonna cost ya more in materials and time.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Hey Chris, I think everyone on this board is willing to help a guy out. The responses I read to your questions indicate just that. People do have different opinons, ideas, and ways of doing things and these guys are offering help. Maybe that will help explain the varied replies to your wife.
                        Jim

                        Miller MM 210
                        Miller Dialarc 250P
                        Airco 225 engine driven
                        Victor O/A
                        Lots of other tools and always wanting more

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          [QUOTE=dynasim;347190]



                          If you use the appropriate bolts and plates, there is no difference in the stiffness between a bolt up joint, and a welded butt joint.

                          QUOTE]


                          That's just not true, and displays a lack of understanding of composit welded/bolted connections. There is an abundance of info on this available for cheap.

                          ALL bolted connections exibit slight movement under load, welded joints don't.
                          connections that are bolted and welded are a good example of a case that needs a knowledgable engineer.

                          If your original bolted design was adequate, you can either help (unlikely), or hurt (a bit more likely), the integrity of the connection by applying weld.

                          When you ask a question on the interweb, you don't have the option of deciding who, and in what way, responds to your question. You take what you get, some good, some not.

                          JTMcC.

                          on edit I'll add this: I agree with post's #5. #6. #8, #9, #12. Specially #9.
                          We weld large numbers of engineered structural connections from time to time so I'm not pulling my info from out of my butt. And I've got a pretty comprehensive library of solid information on the topic that supports my take. info available to anyone who want's to take the time to digest it.
                          Last edited by JTMcCracken; 02-03-2009, 04:13 PM.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            response to JTMcCracken

                            JTMcCracken

                            To reply or not,

                            That is the question.

                            The design of the beam and joint system was developed by a competent, knowledgeable, and seasoned home construction design profesional, whom was a PE, and I paid.

                            It was evaluated initially for an essentially continuous beam(one joint).

                            Then it was evaluated as a segmented beam(4 joints), due to facts found in the ground(literally).

                            Someone who makes as sure of a statement about something, when no(literally zero) relevant facts are known, and criticizes that something(which is unknown) to the point of condemnation, is an interesting case study in itself.

                            I've done the joint calculations, and it is unlikely, unless they were intentionally left loose, that the joint would slip enough(I am pretty sure they would not slip at all) to allow the house to "breathe". Finally, the floor joist/plate coupling design(again, not my design) takes this problem into account(as does the coupling design for regular concrete foundations).

                            There are a hundred reasons why a welded structure is optimum for the installation, and, most importantly, no reason why it isn't.

                            I could lay out my whole design, upload drawing, pictures, calculation details, and other miscellaneous facts, but then this would be a construction forum, and not a welding forum. Finally, arguing details with a group of people whose mission it is to tear one down(which is the whole point of your post) is pointless.

                            I was careless in my use of the word stiffness, and for that I apologize. The conclusion I made(bolted joints don't allow "breathing") was still correct.

                            As I've said, I've learned my lesson. You can pound on me, call me names, say that I am unreasonable, arrogant, selfish, a non-contributor, a smartss, and several other things that you have no idea whether they are true(for you have no basis). Everything I have said has been reasonable and true.

                            One person helped me, and for that I am grateful.

                            Thanks again
                            Chris

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              tornados

                              Archer,

                              I live in Manhattan, which was hit by the tornado that destroyed Chapman. I have seen the results of lots of tornados. By far the worst was the OK city tornado 5 or 6 years ago. I was stunned. While Greensburg was dramatic because it destroyed the whole town, the OK City tornado took out a whole swath through huge housing developments(I think the same tornado went all the way to Tulsa).

                              It doesn't really matter what you do if you get a direct hit. The house will come apart is some fashion. However, details will make near misses much less harmful, as well as helping protect against other unforseen problems(ramming by runaway cars ). That is what I am aiming for.

                              Thanks
                              Chris

                              Comment

                              Working...
                              X