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Run time before overheating unit?

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  • #16
    Thanks guys, I had no idea what it meant. On my Snap-On(Century) I got a green light that tells me everything is fine. I have never seen anything else. But then again I don't usually work on anything massive and even on the large projects I weld a little, then I cut and grind the next piece and then I weld a bit again and on and on.

    Also, good to know about leaving the unit on for cool down. Never have but I guess I will start.
    Robert

    Snap-on (Century) 110 Mig
    Ridgid Chop Saw
    Makita 4" Grinder
    Quite a collection of scrap

    Functional Stuff is painted, my art rusts.

    The greatest lesson in life is to know that even fools are right sometimes. - Winston Chruchill

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    • #17
      Hank, I don't think you are nit picking. I have a Lincoln Square wave Tig rated 20% at 135 amps AC. Used for Al fuel tank repairs mainly. I run afoot pedal with the amp control knob turned all the way up. Works fine for tanks. However trying to fix an old Al oil pan I temped it out three times in a row. Soon as the temp light went out I was back at it again. At the third temp out I had just finished. The quaint smell of wire varnish was waifing out the vents. Pretty close but the smoke stayed in. One more over temp I feel it would have been lights out. On a warm day 85 degrees with it set to DC+ and 120 amps you can burn about 10 to 15 sticks of 1/8 before the temp light shines. I did melt the water line on a weldcraft wp 20 torch. It wasn't my fault. When replacing I found the original torch lines were reversed. Seems the water came down the power side to the torch then back to the machine. Should have been from machine to torch head retuning down the power line according to the instalstructions. Aside from the Lincoln being under powered for our needs, rest of our stuff is 400 amps + all 100% rated at max output. Going for beer and book to look up pagenation. LOL.
      Last edited by Mr Meck; 11-08-2007, 10:41 PM. Reason: Da spelling

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      • #18
        I understand duty cycle and all the above, but just to clarify.
        When the thermal overload switch kicks in and shuts off the machine when you have exceeded your duty cycle, if you do that to many times you can still burn up your machine? I have always read that the thermal switch was to shut off the machine to keep it from burning up, thus interpreting it as a safety feature to prevent the machine from "OVER" heating and just about making it impossible to burn up. It didnt know you could still burn it up if you run it till the switch kicks in.
        So what I though was you could run it till the switch kicks in and then let it cool and run it again. You are saying to run it till just before the switch kicks in (but dont keep running it till the switch kicks in), and then let it cool.

        Is that a correct interpretation?

        -Ryan
        PowerMig 215
        Precision Tig 225
        Old Buzz Box

        Hypertherm 600
        HH 125 EZ
        MM 350P
        TB 302 w/ 12RC


        Originally posted by scab
        If you are the type of person who gets upset at things breaking brace yourself for possible dissappointment.

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        • #19
          Ryan,

          I recently picked up a HH125ez for the sake of a quick fix or as a portable loaner for my kids. Within the manual it states that if that unit hits the duty cycle flag, it will shut off. It than says to allow for it to cool for 15 minutes.
          Although I have never hit my duty cycle on my other units, with this little gal it is more probable.
          My view is that the 10 minutes reference is for the operator to use while welding. If the operator hits the flag, more time may be necessary in order to protect the unit - else run the eventual risk of "smoking ur machine"...
          I am sure someone else will chime in but, better safe than sorry.
          Russ
          MM175, 300/200 Thunderbolt,
          Miller Spectrum 125C, HH 125 EZ,
          Victor Super-Range O2/fuel,
          BWE,
          and...
          lots-of-junk slowly being replaced
          {previous login was KC8DZV, changed on 10.10.07)

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          • #20
            Originally posted by ace4059 View Post
            ...
            So what I though was you could run it till the switch kicks in and then let it cool and run it again. You are saying to run it till just before the switch kicks in (but dont keep running it till the switch kicks in), and then let it cool.

            Is that a correct interpretation?

            -Ryan
            You are trying to base the cut off on time...it's not, it's thermal...so you can't predict when the switch will cut off...run the machine till it kicks in...which will be probably never, let it cool, then start welding again. You can't run it to burn it up, because the thermal overload switch will prevent it from getting too hot. When you start welding as soon as the machine comes back to life...it will weld fine, till it gets too hot and shuts off...this is not rocket science here. You may have to wait a little longer than you did before it came back to life...but you're not going to damage the machine.

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            • #21
              Rocky,
              That is what I thought.
              It was I misinterperted that some people were saying, "if you keep running your machine till it hits the duty cycle, you will burn it up"

              I have only hit the duty cycle with my small HH125, and a while welding 3/8" MS at 230 amps with the tig.
              But I have tried to make the thermal switch kick in on my PM 215, and with it running maxed out for 18 minutes it never did hit the duty cycle, Now the mig gun was another story.
              PowerMig 215
              Precision Tig 225
              Old Buzz Box

              Hypertherm 600
              HH 125 EZ
              MM 350P
              TB 302 w/ 12RC


              Originally posted by scab
              If you are the type of person who gets upset at things breaking brace yourself for possible dissappointment.

              Comment


              • #22
                Lots of factors come into play, I ran my little tombstone dam near as hard as it could but I was in a very cool shop, 45 degree air whistling thru it, the thing never even warm. Thats not saying it couldn't cook a diode or something local internal but it certainly doesn't heat the air. My shop is cool most of the time, ran my SP175 hard, never give it a thought and never have a problem and never feel any warm air worth a second thought. I don't usually think about duty cycle, seems there are usually enough distractions for cooling time. Only thing I ever overheat was a tig torch.
                http://www.facebook.com/cary.urka.urkafarms

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                • #23
                  You'd generally be significantly past your duty cycle before warming to the point of tripping the thermal overload. I know I was on my MM175. That's why it takes so long to cool off when you do.

                  If you paid attention to the time limits, you'd never trip the overload.

                  You never want to RELY on the thermal trip. It's a safety that you hope works when you don't pay attention to the time.

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                  • #24
                    Duty cycle is not something you hit. Adhering to the duty cycle keeps your machine cool. If you continually run the machine till it stops welding you are exceeding the duty cycle and entering thermal shut down. If you want to ignore a machines duty cycle and run it till it stops, go ahead. But ALL the Miller manuals I have looked at HIGHLY recommend you adhere to the duty cycle. Repeated overtemps are NOT recommended and voids warranty if so conditions are found during repair. So quit confusing duty cycle with thermal shutdown. Thanks
                    I know I referenced Miller manuals on a Hobart site. I apologize. But I would bet you 100 bucks the same cautions are to be found in the Hobart manuals as well.
                    Last edited by Mr Meck; 11-09-2007, 07:21 PM. Reason: Add last line

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                    • #25
                      As a hobbiest, thermal shutdown is something I will never worry about. Running 2 inch; 4 inch; 6 inch long passes and then ( newbie here) stopping and lifting my helmet to see if Im doing all that Im suppose to be doing, the "off time" just is just about 3-4 times longer than the "on time"....so my machines never get close to any thermal problems.

                      But let me ask the pro's here this question.

                      IF you are "usually" running into "thermal shutdowns" arent you in a way..??...using TOO SMALL a welder for the particular job? Realizing of course that a guy has to use what equipment he HAS...which may not be what he WANTS to do a job

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                      • #26
                        Originally posted by Sully2 View Post
                        ..
                        But let me ask the pro's here this question.

                        IF you are "usually" running into "thermal shutdowns" arent you in a way..??...using TOO SMALL a welder for the particular job? Realizing of course that a guy has to use what equipment he HAS...which may not be what he WANTS to do a job
                        Yep, tiz true!

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                        • #27
                          Originally posted by Rocky D View Post
                          Yep, tiz true!
                          Okie doke. Thats what I was thinking....

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                          • #28
                            Cary brings up a good point. You can extend the time frame some by cooling the welder with a fan. I was welding up some 4"channel door frames for my sisters tilt up bldg and all I had was a MM 130xp. Print called for 3/16 fillets and I was getting that ok but did trip the overload a couple of times on the first one. I had 4 to do so I opened the panels on the machine and set a box fan so it would blow into it, slowed down a taste, and didnt hit shutdown again. Its probably not recommended but it did work.

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                            • #29
                              That would be a correct assesment. If you are in thermal and waiting to cool on a frequent basis, then you need a machine with a higher duty cylce.

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