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handler 135 - arcs when machine is off

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  • handler 135 - arcs when machine is off

    We have this welder and the thing arcs, without pulling the trigger. We also found it to arc even with the power switch in the off position. What could be wrong

  • #2
    First off, unplug it! It could be dangerous. Hobart Expert Darrel will pick up on your question, soon, I'm sure. He designs these machines, and is truly an expert in every sense of the word. He may want to know; was the machine dropped?, gotten wet inside? What happened from the last time you used it, to now?
    Hobart stands right behind their machines...a lot like the guy on the Verizon commercial with the glasses....they monitor this forum, and resolve problems quickly.

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    • #3
      If the unit arcs even when off then the mostly likely problem would be a relay on the control board stuck closed. The relay is part of the board, so the board will need to be replaced to repair the machine.

      Keith

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      • #4
        How big an arc is it, a big arc like when welding or a little small arc. If it is a small arc that last only a second and then stops it could just be the capacitor discharging, which would be normal - but it would be a small arch -something you could barely see. I would think with the power off and if the fan quits running it will be a small arc from the capacitor. If i could find a welder that could weld without power I would buy it ... even if it wasn't a Hobart

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        • #5
          Originally posted by Rocky D View Post
          First off, unplug it! It could be dangerous. Hobart Expert Darrel will pick up on your question, soon, I'm sure. He designs these machines, and is truly an expert in every sense of the word. He may want to know; was the machine dropped?, gotten wet inside? What happened from the last time you used it, to now?
          Hobart stands right behind their machines...a lot like the guy on the Verizon commercial with the glasses....they monitor this forum, and resolve problems quickly.
          No - The machine was not abused in any way, (we have it on a cart) and has never gotten wet. We have had a lot of weird things happen with this machine - must be spooked! A few months ago, we could not get the wire to feed at all (tried numberous times throughout a two week period). We took it to a friend (who works for ITW (Miller) and the dumb thing worked fine - and has been feeding fine since - actually too fine now that it arcs without power!

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          • #6
            Originally posted by Hobart Expert Keith View Post
            If the unit arcs even when off then the mostly likely problem would be a relay on the control board stuck closed. The relay is part of the board, so the board will need to be replaced to repair the machine.

            Keith
            Thanks for the reply

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            • #7
              Originally posted by 6010 View Post
              How big an arc is it, a big arc like when welding or a little small arc. If it is a small arc that last only a second and then stops it could just be the capacitor discharging, which would be normal - but it would be a small arch -something you could barely see. I would think with the power off and if the fan quits running it will be a small arc from the capacitor. If i could find a welder that could weld without power I would buy it ... even if it wasn't a Hobart
              How much ? - kidding - If it wasn't such a dangerous problem, we wouldn't worry about it as much, but we don't need to weld pieces/parts that we have to grind apart later - we tend to create enough work for ourselves the way it is. And it's not just a little arc - we can weld metal together. Sound loke we should have the board checked out.

              Thanks for the reply

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              • #8
                If it welds after you let off the trigger on the gun then you have a problem. The part about turning off the unit is what made me ask. I think Keith will have to agree. If you can weld with the power cut off on the power switch, there is more wrong with it than a stuck relay.

                You should send it back to a repair center.

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                • #9
                  I've been on vacation (still am), but Keith's assessment of the problem is correct. The contacts of the relay on the control board that breaks the primary circuit to the power transformer have welded shut. This will allow the contact to stay hot. The welder won't weld, because the wire won't feed, it'll still spark though. Either the control board needs to be replaced or the the relay on the board needs to be replaced.

                  Either way, Rocky is correct. Unplug the machine and have it repaired.

                  Darrell

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                  • #10
                    Darrell,
                    I'll admit the relay is stuck to cause it to weld without the trigger being pulled, but he also said it would do this when the power switch is off. It looks like to me there is a problem there also. Maybe I misunderstood what he said, but I think he made a distinction between the trigger and the power switch in the first post.

                    I really applaud you guys taking your time to help out with these problems on the message board. I know how important good service is in keeping customers happy. I plan to buy one of your welders in the near future and I know where to get help if I need it.

                    Best regards
                    6010

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                    • #11
                      Darrell,
                      Never mind Darrell. I see it now, and I know why you did it that way.

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                      • #12
                        6010,

                        I didn't want to bore everyone with the complete circuit theory. The power switch controls the control circuitry, which in turn, controls the main power relay. If the power contactor contacts are stuck (welded), there's no control. It doesn't matter whether the power switch is on or off. It's the same situation whether the contacts are in a power relay (contactor) or a high power switch.

                        Darrell

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                        • #13
                          Thanks Darrell,
                          I don't know if it bores everyone else but it doesn't bore me at all. I see the way it is done in the 135 the switch doesn't have to pass the current to the primary of the power transformer, the gas valve, or the wire motor. I am used to seeing it done differently with a switch on the equipment I work on, but I can understand why you did it that way.

                          Thanks for explaining it to me.

                          Best regards
                          6010

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                          • #14
                            Same Problem

                            I am having the same problem with my Handler 135. It has happened before, last time I was able to blow out the machine with compressed air and all was fixed. This time it hums after you turn it off and makes a big arc. Large enough that if you have 5 or 6 inches of wire out of the gun, turn the machine off, and touch it to the grounded table the wire glows and melts away!

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                            • #15
                              Originally posted by woggon View Post
                              ... if you have 5 or 6 inches of wire out of the gun, ...!
                              Maybe I shouldn't ask, but....

                              why???

                              Dave
                              Still building my new old truck - see the progress!
                              http://www.ford-trucks.com/forums/65...-coe-idea.html
                              http://www.hobartwelders.com/weldtal...ad.php?t=27017

                              Square Wave TIG 200 - Woot!
                              MM180
                              SP125+

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