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Tack or spot welding 1/8 in thick mild steel

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  • #31
    Originally posted by Jessie126 View Post

    Well for starters I was thinking for aesthetic purposes that as long as the rivets were flat that it would look decent enough but my partner didn't think they would last and not be as strong as a weld so we decided to just stick to the weld. It was a fleeting thought.
    tried JB weld but that didn't work either. So we'll head back to try some more tomorrow and come back to post more later.
    Thanks again North welder . : )
    If you are more of a visual learner, here is a Yutube video that shows your plug weld being done with MIG (easier and slower than FCAW, but note how fast you have to be). If you are now using a 1/4" hole and still have failing welds, you are not starting the arc on the bottom piece.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V0B3HnmbSDw
    Last edited by Northweldor; 09-09-2019, 02:19 PM.

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    • #32
      Originally posted by Sandy View Post
      I'd drill a 1/4 inch hole, probably even chamfer it a bit just because a 1/4 hole is pretty small compared to the tip. don't stop till you've got a nice button built. Short stickout.
      I agree. With such a small hole, that could help. You need to go around the periphery, not just squirt wire straight down the hole.
      --- RJL ----------------------------------------------

      Ordinarily I'm insane, but I have lucid moments when I'm merely stupid.
      -------------------------

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      • #33
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ID:	705997This doesn't prove anything. It's not meant to upset the apple cart of advice that's been given. It certainly isn't to be construed to be the final answer or authority when it comes to using magnets for a alignment device when tacking or welding.
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ID:	705999 But I didn't see much change in appearance or weld characteristics when welding over them?

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ID:	706000So I repositioned the magnets and tried again. I did notice a bitt of a burp when I circled back but that could have been my jitter doing the abrupt face in direction as an after thought?

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ID:	706001 After I turned the gas off, I got the urge to try one more, but forgot to turn the gas on. While I figure that out quickly, I figured I'd run with it. Those magnets didn't effect it much then either.

        Now I'm not saying arc blow isn't real, or a condition that affects arc control and arc characteristics, or that clamping wouldn't be a better option. What I will suggest is buddy shouldn't be so quick to throw them away.

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        • #34
          Originally posted by oldguyfrom56 View Post
          [
          Now I'm not saying arc blow isn't real, or a condition that affects arc control and arc characteristics, or that clamping wouldn't be a better option. What I will suggest is buddy shouldn't be so quick to throw them away.
          You are correct when you say the puddle-beading above proves nothing. A better designed "test " would have been a groove weld with a magnet on one side. Perhaps you should read this:

          https://www.lincolnelectric.com/en-c...t/not+provided

          Also, no one said that the OP should "throw away" his magnets. As i explained in post # 25,

          "Magnets should seldom be used except for basic tacking service, because a magnetic field will destabilize the arc plasma while welding, For this weld, they should not be used at all, and metal they have been used on should be de-magnetized or discarded."

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          • #35
            "Magnets should seldom be used except for basic tacking service, because a magnetic field will destabilize the arc plasma while welding, For this weld, they should not be used at all, and metal they have been used on should be de-magnetized or discarded."

            Pretty strong words.

            "A better designed "test " would have been a groove weld with a magnet on one side."

            Well... Would a double bevel groove prep on 1/8" flat bar be sufficent for this test or do I have to use a thicker material? Will the GMAW process be ok or would you require another process to be used like SMAW? Will those crappy tacking magnets be enough or do I require a stronger one?

            Maybe a better test would be to guage just how strong the magnetic field is from one of those magnets? They sure don't hold much as far as I'm concerned?

            Buddy's problem harsh as it sounds, isn't the magnets it's his welding abilities and understanding of the process.

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            • #36
              "Buddy's problem harsh as it sounds, isn't the magnets it's his welding abilities and understanding of the process. "

              If you read the rest of this thread, that is what I, and others, have told the OP since the beginning post.

              No "Test" is needed. Anyone with any real welding experience knows that any magnetic field in close proximity to an arc will affect the arc, and, except for the few rare cases where it is used intentionally, it should be avoided. This is why some fabricators have to spend a great amount on de-gaussing equipment, why used drill-rod or drill pipe is almost impossible to weld with DC, and, why pipeline builders have to alighn stored pipe, so that it will not be magnetized by the Earth's magnetic field!

              I use welding magnets at times, in fit-up and tacking, but always remove them once welding starts. I also use them often to gauss or de-gauss tools, and clean up small metal parts and debris, and they have plenty of strength for that. I don't see any necessity for gauss meter readings.

              I told the OP to get rid of the magnets in this instance, because they COULD affect the weld. and he now understands why. And this discussion is largely hijacking his thread!

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              • #37
                Thanks Northwelder. I appologize for another question for the same thing. It could be that is what the problem is. Any solutions?

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                • #38
                  Originally posted by fotso View Post
                  Thanks Northwelder. I appologize for another question for the same thing. It could be that is what the problem is. Any solutions?
                  I already gave you solutions for the magnet problem and the hole problem. (Post 25 and 30) What is it that you are still having problems with? Post pictures of your welds that were failures.
                  Last edited by Northweldor; 09-28-2019, 02:06 PM.

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                  • #39
                    I think the problem might be with your technique?

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                    • #40
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ID:	706439Anyone with any welding experience would know you are making a mountain out of a mole hill with those magnets. This is a 3" diameter speaker magnet stuck to a 20guage sheet covered in iron particle.
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ID:	706440This is what it held on the other side from magnetism, again the thickness was 20guage material. There's no arc blow from that. We have shared out opinions, I backed mine up pictures.
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ID:	706441You can talk all the smack you want, but your authority in making the comparison between those crappy magnets and magnetic arc blow is flawed.

                      Buddy would be wise to improve his welding skills and his understanding rather then think his problem stems from those magnets in my opinion and we have read your thinking other wise. No test required is right.

                      Just curious, you mention used intentionally? Can you provide an example?

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                      • #41
                        Originally posted by oldguyfrom56 View Post
                        [Anyone with any welding experience would know you are making a mountain out of a mole hill with those magnets.This is a 3" diameter speaker magnet stuck to a 20guage sheet covered in iron particle.
                        [This is what it held on the other side from magnetism, again the thickness was 20guage material. There's no arc blow from that. We have shared out opinions, I backed mine up pictures.
                        You can talk all the smack you want, but your authority in making the comparison between those crappy magnets and magnetic arc blow is flawed.

                        Buddy would be wise to improve his welding skills and his understanding rather then think his problem stems from those magnets in my opinion and we have read your thinking other wise. No test required is right.

                        Just curious, you mention used intentionally? Can you provide an example?

                        As I have said before, you are a very poor reader. Also, you are very fond of posting doubtfully relevant pictures which you claim support your opinions, and hijacking threads off-topic, to discuss YOUR ideas, rather than the OP's question.

                        Since you are a relative newcomer on this list, perhaps you don't know this is generally regarded as poor internet etiquette.

                        With regard to your insulting post above, i removed the pictures from my quote because they do not "back" up your opinions.

                        Since at NO point in the thread above, did I ever claim that the welding magnets the OP used were responsible for his weld failure. Instead, I suggested they should not be used on this weld because they might destabilize the arc in a situation where, as Sandy said above. arc direction needs to be veryaccurate, since "...you only get one chance..." However, I explained all this, in post #36, and there is no point in repeating it, since you simply won't read it again...etc.

                        Also, In the first answer to the OP above, and in all subsequent answers. I, and most others, have been focusing on different ways to "...improve his welding skills and his understanding...", while YOU have been "making a mountain out of a mole hill with those magnets...." My wasted responses to you simply led to further off-topic discussion.

                        As I have suggested before, If you really want to test your lack of belief in the influence of magnetic arc-blow, just get some used drill stem ( often donated to anyone who wants it) and try to build permanent basketball backboards for community parks. I have done several of these, with pipe so residually magnetized that a pair of pliers would stick to it. I have also built fence and railings with used drill-rod, using SMAW-AC. What have you done?

                        Finally, If you want to present opinions like this, have the courage to start your own thread, and cite some welding authorities who agree with you, rather than irrelevant pictures.

                        "Just curious, you mention used intentionally? Can you provide an example?"

                        I won't bother answering, the question above, since the answer is in the Lincoln article on arc-blow I posted above, and, you obviously didn't read it.
                        Last edited by Northweldor; 10-27-2019, 05:47 PM.

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                        • #42
                          Originally posted by oldguyfrom56 View Post
                          ...This is a 3" diameter speaker magnet stuck to a 20guage sheet covered in iron particle....This is what it held on the other side from magnetism, again the thickness was 20guage material. There's no arc blow from that. We have shared out opinions, I backed mine up pictures....
                          I must admit I have no idea how the pictures had anything to do with the topic, nor even your assertion.

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                          • #43
                            Originally posted by MAC702 View Post

                            I must admit I have no idea how the pictures had anything to do with the topic, nor even your assertion.
                            The assertion was that the magnet did nothing to effect the arc. The picture was to show how little effect the magnet actually held as far as particle attraction which when brought into conversation to possible disruption to the arc showed it would have little affect.

                            Comparing the welding of drill stem to welding two chunks of flat bar held in place by a couple of magnets is just dumb.

                            "
                            try to build permanent basketball backboards for community parks."

                            Public liability risks suggest a shady contractor making a buck using used material on a job that requires a greater degree of accountability in construction. So are you the guy littering the landscape with those ugly things?

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                            • #44
                              @Jessie126.......Have you solved your "hole" problem?

                              If you haven't been able to make the "hole" solution work to your satisfaction, why not just try welding each edge where the two pieces touch and then grind them smooth.

                              I know you mentioned you wanted to minimize grinding, but your going to have to grind the weld that fills the holes to get it smooth and as "invisible" as possible. Seems like you could more easily just weld the the edges and grind those smooth.

                              Since your last post was almost 2 months ago, I assume you either had success with the hole fill, or got tired of the magnet arguments.

                              Let us know how your project turned out.
                              Last edited by Rangerhgm; 10-31-2019, 08:49 AM.
                              Gregg
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