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New Hobart 190: Need help knowing how to wire for the Nema 6-50 and breakers...

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  • New Hobart 190: Need help knowing how to wire for the Nema 6-50 and breakers...

    I recently purchased a Hobart 190. I'm new to the trade and I intend to set this all up outside in my garage.

    Here's my current configuration:

    1.) My main breaker panel is fed from the utility a 200A service.
    2.) The 100A garage sub-panel is fed from the main panel in the house using a single Square D double-60 breaker.
    3.) The sub-panel has 3 individual 20A breakers currently occupying slots and used for the current garage power (i.e. - lights, power tools, garage door, etc.). From what I understand from the research I've done, I need a double-30 breaker to be inserted into the furthest 2 open slots to get 220V service going for this welder.

    I also need 14 gauge wire, but I'm confused as to whether this constitutes the need of 10/2 or 10/3... My total run length will be around 15 feet in the garage from the sub-panel.

    In an effort to wire the garage on my own, I'm trying to do my research before doing anything. As you can imagine, there's a lot of information out there to weed through, especially for someone like me. That said, I've come to understand that the NEMA 6-50 plug I need for this has to be wired with a ground, a neutral, and a hot. Correct?

    So what kind of wire do I need to go buy and what kind of breaker do I need to insert into the sub-panel? I plan on making a run to Menard's for everything later today but if I can figure those 2 things out, I think I can handle the rest.

    Thanks in advance.

  • Sberry
    replied
    This is why it lists 14 in the manual. The dvi models actually come 14 cord but they have special adapter to allow it on 50 circuits. The 190 comes with 12 cord, it only requires 14 but they use 12 to allow it on 50.
    . The breaker is only for an off/on switch and as short circuit protection for the cord, for thermal it is protected by its own internal and by the load the machine is capable of applying.

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  • Sberry
    replied
    This welder allows 14 wire if single circuit in pipe but it must be limited to a 30A breaker. A cable could be 12 but the 10 gives the little machine all the help it can get from the circuit.
    . It can be 12 wire, again single in pipe and up to 50A breaker. 10 cable is allowed on 50 for many welders. Most that come with 50 ends with the exception of 250 feeders with higher duty cycles.
    . For this machine the operator wouldn't be able to tell the difference between a 12 or 10.

    Leave a comment:


  • MAC702
    replied
    Originally posted by Grapemaster View Post
    Hello, I'm sorry if this is intrusive, but I'm new here and this thread has me curious. If wiring for a NEMA 6-50 device, shouldn't the wire and breaker size be rated for 50 amps? In that case it would require #8 AWG. I thought it was mandatory to rate the wire size to the receptacle rating. You can undersize the breaker but not the wire... or so I thought.....
    Size the breaker for the wire. And welders have the additional exemptions of Article 630.

    Leave a comment:


  • Grapemaster
    replied
    Was not aware of a "standard". Live and learn.

    Leave a comment:


  • Dale M.
    replied
    The standard plug/receptical of welders has pretty much distilled down to the NEMA 6-50 plug/receptical across almost all manufacturers for 240V machines... Wire size and breaker capacity is pretty much dependent on load characteristics of welder, wiring and breaker does not have to be installed to maximum rated capacity of receptical/plug...

    Dale

    Leave a comment:


  • Grapemaster
    replied
    Hello, I'm sorry if this is intrusive, but I'm new here and this thread has me curious. If wiring for a NEMA 6-50 device, shouldn't the wire and breaker size be rated for 50 amps? In that case it would require #8 AWG. I thought it was mandatory to rate the wire size to the receptacle rating. You can undersize the breaker but not the wire... or so I thought.

    The Handler 190 states a max current draw of 20.5 amps @ 230 VAC, well into the NEMA 6-30 range.

    I just installed my plasma cutter with a NEMA L6-30 (twistlock), which is a 30 amp setup and #10 wire.

    Just curious.
    Last edited by Grapemaster; 05-08-2019, 11:56 AM.

    Leave a comment:


  • usmcpop
    replied
    Originally posted by odis View Post
    ... Had a licensed electrician inspect it.
    I read a book or two on home wiring and consulted with a licensed electrician before I wired my addition. He spec'd the panel & etc. I had him run the 2/0 aluminum wires from the main panel to the 100A sub-panel (a 200A Cutler-Hammer main panel with CH breakers) and do the final breaker connections there - it's a work of art. I was just the grunt drilling, pulling wires and connecting outlets, switches and fixtures (mostly Pass & Seymour). I did have years of prior experience with electronics and electrical metering, so I wasn't a total newbie. The addition was about 1800 sq. ft. and cost about $50,000. (and I was the prime contractor). I didn't cheap out. Nor did I use those stab-in connections on any switches or outlets.


    Last edited by usmcpop; 02-27-2019, 03:36 PM.

    Leave a comment:


  • odis
    replied
    I put my outlet just below my breaker box and bought an extension cord. I went by what my owners manual from Hobart said I needed for the 210.

    Had a licensed electrician inspect it.

    Leave a comment:


  • usmcpop
    replied
    I pulled about 300 ft of wire for about 2 dozen circuits in my addition. Had to go through the laminated joists between the garage ceiling and the rooms above. Up the ladder, pull a few feet. Move the ladder, pull a few more feet. No helper. Repeat 100 times. I'm sick of ladders.

    Leave a comment:


  • MAC702
    replied
    I fish wires into walls for a living. There are some that just refuse it. And there are some that just actively fight back...

    Leave a comment:


  • Wolf_22
    replied
    Thanks for the info, Mac. I went and bought a 25 foot length of 10/2 for this just awhile ago at my local Menards. I think I have everything I need now. I just need to cut into the stupid OSB wall where this is all being done to fish everything into the sub-panel because I tried to use my little snake tool to fish the new wire through the wall but even that got caught on something, so needless to say, I'm just going to have to cool off and come back at it again tomorrow morning with a better demeanor and my jigsaw! Ugh, this stuff can be so frustrating sometimes.

    Anyway, I just left everything where it was and decided to come inside for some grub and a good night's rest. We all know it's not good to work on things like this when you're pissed off. Stupid wires... They always get the best of me.

    Leave a comment:


  • MAC702
    replied
    Well, to clarify, the #14 on a 30A breaker is technically fine and legal for a welding machine dedicated circuit, but it's such a short run, that it isn't that much more to do it with #10 wire and then the circuit is allowed to be used for anything else in the future, too, and won't ever confuse anyone.

    Leave a comment:


  • Wolf_22
    replied
    Thanks for clarification on the wires (and the good advice).

    I feel pretty stupid when it comes to this stuff but I'll make sure to use the 10/2, which makes sense now thinking about it from it being the wire that has 2 hots and a ground... It also clears up how everything works with the plug and the double-30 I'll be putting into the sub-panel.

    Leave a comment:


  • usmcpop
    replied
    Don't be in a rush to buy anything until you learn a little more. Do NOT run 14 gauge wire for a 30 Amp breaker. 10 gauge, 2 conductor with ground should do. NEMA 6-50 takes two "hots" - two conductors, and a ground as it's 240 Volts.
    Last edited by usmcpop; 02-23-2019, 02:23 PM.

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