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Hobart Handler 140 tripping breaker

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  • #16
    Tested? What do you mean tested? With outlet tester? Between our conversations I talked an electrician friend of mine who owned an electric company for years. He said I should have went with a 10-3 wire with a ground. He told me not weld to long with 30amp on 12 gauge wire.

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    • #17

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      • #18
        Originally posted by Dale M. View Post
        Basically, yes you can BUT a 2 wire romex will only have hot leg( black) and neutral (white), and it does not have the safety ground.. IS it even available???...
        I've never seen NM cable without a ground, though I've heard it's made for things like smoke detectors which are completely plastic and ungrounded. That said, every SD circuit I've ever seen or done, we just use the same NM cable and just don't use the ground, so it's a small bit of waste of a the bare ground but easier than finding and keeping track of ungrounded cable.

        I would say that every electrician knows you means "with ground" when referring to 12/2 cable.

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        • #19
          Originally posted by RonnieH View Post
          ...I talked an electrician friend of mine who owned an electric company for years. He said I should have went with a 10-3 wire with a ground. He told me not weld to long with 30amp on 12 gauge wire.
          The vast majority of electricians are completely unfamiliar with welders and their Code allowances.

          It is impossible to weld too long for the smaller wire, which is why it's allowed for welder circuits.

          Again, the trick is that with 120V circuits, it's VERY easy to have other things get plugged into the circuit instead.

          He should, however, know that #12 wire is limited to 20A as a large safety factor.

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          • #20
            The Home Depot employee who's worked in that department as long as we've had the store told me 12 gauge wire will only "pull 20 amps."
            MAC702 I dont understand why you could not weld too long. The 30 amp breaker on 12-2 wire should last longer than the 20 amp. The electrician told me if I ran long continuous beads the wire would heat up and burn my house down.

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            • #21
              There is this thing of duty cycle, most low end MIG welders have a 20% duty cycle.. The means you can only weld for about 2 minutes out of 10 minutes... Pretty common to have a duty cycle related to welder/manufacturer, the Hobart 140 happens to be 20%.... I run a 25 foot 12 gauge 3 wire extension cord from my 20 AMP receptical fed by a 30 amp breaker and 10 gauge wire (from breaker to receptical) and extension cord and connectors on ends hardly get warm, certainly not warm to melt insulation and cause a problem... Hood on my PU get hotter after 30 minute run.... You electrician is in the dark here and the HD employees knows very little and probably only parroting what customers have told him and they are not experts either ... IF worried get thermal heat gun thermometer and monitor the wiring till you are sure it is safe... Also consider the AC input cord on welder is only 14 gauge wire (early HH 140).... IF you are going to burn wiring the welder cord will probably be first to go...

              I burned through a full roll (small) of .030 wire on step 3 of early HH140 (4 step machine) a few days ago, and NO SMOKE-NO DANGER, house and garage still standing

              Dale
              Lives his life vicariously through his own self.

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              • #22
                Thanks Dale, I was going to put the 30 amp breaker on 12 gauge wire and see what happened. I dont think I can weld long enough to heat it up. What will happen if I exceed 2 minutes out of 10? Will 30 amp breaker trip? Is that 2 continuous minutes? Sorry for so many questions but it sounds like you know what you're talking about.

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                • #23
                  You will not overheat the wire. The machine has a 14 cord and can run from 14 wire, the 12 is a size heavier than it needs.
                  http://www.facebook.com/cary.urka.urkafarms

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                  • #24
                    Originally posted by RonnieH View Post
                    Thanks Dale, I was going to put the 30 amp breaker on 12 gauge wire and see what happened. I dont think I can weld long enough to heat it up. What will happen if I exceed 2 minutes out of 10? Will 30 amp breaker trip? Is that 2 continuous minutes? Sorry for so many questions but it sounds like you know what you're talking about.
                    Weld to long and most that will happen is machine goes into thermal shut down.....Or operate internal circuit breaker/reset button on rear panel....

                    Dale
                    Last edited by Dale M.; 11-10-2018, 09:16 PM.
                    Lives his life vicariously through his own self.

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                    • #25
                      A couple of things to keep in mind about the machines duty cycle. 1st the duty cycle (by reputable manufactures) is determined by operating and testing internal temps at relatively high ambient temperatures. Generally around 104 degrees ambient. Lower than that and you may be able to weld for longer periods. Even at that, double or triple the rated duty cycle is still only 4 minutes or 6 minutes and not anywhere near a time length needed to heat up a cord. Having said that the 2nd is that the duty cycle is based on remaining below these temps determined to be detrimental to the machine, by the time the machine reaches the thermal shutdown phase, you have already exceeded the duty cycle. So Once you reached this 'shut down' phase it's time to make a mental note of those conditions it took to get there and try and make use of that in the future.

                      I'm not gonna say that reaching the thermal shut down is any kind of panic event, just don't make a habit of running it up to that point every time-all the time. Time for a larger piece of gear.
                      Last edited by Sandy; 11-10-2018, 07:20 PM.

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                      • #26
                        Originally posted by RonnieH View Post
                        The Home Depot employee who's worked in that department as long as we've had the store told me 12 gauge wire will only "pull 20 amps."
                        MAC702 I dont understand why you could not weld too long. The 30 amp breaker on 12-2 wire should last longer than the 20 amp. The electrician told me if I ran long continuous beads the wire would heat up and burn my house down.
                        Neither one of those people is an electrician if that's what they think. I've been a professional electrician and hack welder for 20 and 30 years respectively. I've run 50A circuits on #12 wire, to Code, for specialized applications like welders, and it's very common for #12 wire to have 40A breakers on certain motor loads like HVAC equipment. Some "electricians" don't know anything beyond light switches, but they become such an expert at light switches they call themselves an "electrician."

                        Article 630 in the National Electric Code covers welders.

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                        • #27
                          Originally posted by Sandy View Post
                          ...I'm not gonna say that reaching the thermal shut down is any kind of panic event, just don't make a habit of running it up to that point every time-all the time. Time for a larger piece of gear.
                          However, that said, don't use the machine's thermal trip as your timer. It's a safety because you've already long exceeded the machine's duty cycle and are in need of a device to stop you from causing physical damage to your equipment. Read the manual. Understand the concept; and if you are doing a large weldment with the possibility of exceeding your duty cycle, plan places to take a break and let the machine cool with the fan still running.

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                          • #28
                            If you have understanding of "all the above" put in 30 amp breaker verify all electric connections are solid..... WELD....

                            Dale
                            Lives his life vicariously through his own self.

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                            • #29
                              I cant see myself at this point and time exceeding the duty cycle. I am going to put the 30 amp in. May be middle of the week. Work gets in the way. Lol. Thank everyone for the info.

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