New 3 machine welding cart: Best way for a "plug manifold"?

[RBryant]

I finally got around to building a welding cart for my three machines. They are basically stacked three high. MIG, TIG and plasma.

It is not finished as I still haven't figured out all the cable management for the cart, where to put hooks for wrapping up the cables, foot pedal, air filter, all that. On the back of the cart I've got room for two bottles of gas, but I have not built a way to secure them to the cart yet.

I would to have an electrical "manifold" where I could have all three machines plugged into, and have one extension to "plug the cart" into the outlet. I have a 50 amp outlet, but I would only run one machine at a time in any case.

Any ideas on the best way to do this? One way I can think of is to go buy about 8 feet of 6 ga. or so cable, put a NEMA three prong male on one end to go to the wall, then weld up a metal box and put in three female outlets in the box, jumper from the first one to the second and third, then plug the three machines into that box that's on the cart.

Any better ideas? I'd welcome any. Pics forthcoming if anyone is interested. Just a fairly simple three level box cart with 1" angle and 1" square tube and 3/4" expanded metal shelving. 12" wheels on a 1/2" axle on the back, lockable 3" or so casters on the front. GMAW welded together.

[FormerTankSarge]

Can you post a picture or two of your cart, maybe more ideas will come to the viewers.

[Broccoli1]

A box will work

http://www.dadco-llc.com/products.htm

We use em all the time- little different feed to them but you get the ideer

[Knowledgeworker]

Hey Mr. RBryant, you may check out my cart.

http://www.hobartwelders.com/weldtalk/showthread.php?t=28555

It may give you a couple of ideas. I will collect my wiring info and post a little later in the day.

Jim

[RBryant]

Jim,

Yes, your post of your cart did have a box with one 220 and one 110 outlets. I simply want three 220 outlets so that I can have all the machines plugged in at the same time. Naturally I will only have one switched on at a time so as not to overdraw my 50 amp circuit. Plus it is hard for me to run two machines by myself to start with!

In your post someone had added a pic of another cart that looks like it is pretty simiilar to what I am talking about. I attached it here to this post. This is sort of what I am thinking about.

Question, I would assume you are getting 110 from the ground and one of the two 220 hots. I assume this 110 does not have a neutral wire then, only one 110 hot and the ground?

Brocolli -- yes, that's the idea I am talking about, although those particular boxes look too pricey for this. It is interesting that they put breakers in those boxes for each outlet.

I hope to get a trip over to hardware store in the next couple of days and smoke over my options.

RB

[MichaelP]

If you want to have 220V and 110V on your cart yet run a single cable, your wall 220 V outlet has to be 4-prong. It must supply neutral in addition to ground and two hot wires. This will allow you to have a properly wired 110 V on your cart (neutral, hot and ground).

If your 220 V wall outlet has only three wires, you're out of luck and will need to run a separate 120V cable to a 120 V wall outlet.

[bandsawguy]

Jim,



Question, I would assume you are getting 110 from the ground and one of the two 220 hots. I assume this 110 does not have a neutral wire then, only one 110 hot and the ground?



RB

I'm not an electrician but I am pretty sure you never ever use the ground to carry current ever. That is the safety circuit.

[Broccoli1]

Brocolli -- yes, that's the idea I am talking about, although those particular boxes look too pricey for this. It is interesting that they put breakers in those boxes for each outlet.
RB

The breakers are there because we'll run quite a few "Lunchboxes" run all over the place and if we trip something we'll know exactly which Light/Tool, and which box is the problem. Basically little Sub Panels. We'll take 1000amps plus and Distribute it around the set or on location.

You wouldn't need to do it.

You will have to bond the Ground to the case you make so you'll have protection in case a Hot comes loose and shorts against the case.

The Outlet boxes that you buy are designed with this feature- if you look at the Plug you'll see a little bonding strap from the Ground.

[Broccoli1]

Question, I would assume you are getting 110 from the ground and one of the two 220 hots. I assume this 110 does not have a neutral wire then, only one 110 hot and the ground?
RB

110/120v always needs a Neutral- Ground is just a Safety

3-wire 120v/240v Dryer/Range outlets derive the 120v using the Nuetral and also use the Neutral as a Ground "WTF" you say

http://www.hobartwelders.com/weldtalk/showthread.php?t=32153

This is a good read.

[Sberry]

Use 3 common 4x4 deep boxes bolted together. 2$ a piece. I agree about skipping the 120v in this setup, leads to a lot of problems including over current protection. A big help with this thread would be to list the 3 machines.

[RBryant]

I dont' really need the 110, but I actually have neutral at the outlet, I taped off the neutral at the outlet and in the breaker when I converted the outlet from 4 prong to 3 for welding.

Sberry, the machines are Hypertherm 600, TA 185 and Handler 187.

So *if* I did 110 (but I won't), I would hook back up the neutral at the breaker, add a 4 prong and carry it out to use with the 110 outlet. However, this would be a bad idea because the breaker is not going to trip unless 50 amps is pulled across the wires, which is going to toast whatever 110 device is plugged in way before then. That's what you meant by overload protection, Sberry? There is not a one-size-fits all breaker for both 110 and 220 like this. (So, if a 220 electric range that needs 110 to run a clock or timer would need a separate 110 outlet and plug and 15amp breaker??)

I just didn't understand how the cart that I saw a picture of made 110 out of a "welder 220 circuit" that has two hots and a ground. Thanks for the clarification.

So what I plan to do, is use a normal welder 3 prong plug, bring it out to the cart, then have three welder plugs at the cart, being sure to attach the metal boxes (and hence the entire cart) to the ground wire.

Thanks, guys.

RB

[Broccoli1]

I am assuming you are talking about this Photo- the main power cord is a 4-prong cord- so 120v/240v is not a problem.

[Broccoli1]

There is not a one-size-fits all breaker for both 110 and 220 like this. (So, if a 220 electric range that needs 110 to run a clock or timer would need a separate 110 outlet and plug and 15amp breaker??)

The Range uses only one 240v Double pole breaker.

The 120v items on the Range like the Clock and Lights use the same breaker.

[RBryant]

Ed, I was talking about the welder cart in this picture:

http://www.hobartwelders.com/weldtalk/attachment.php?attachmentid=27508&d=1227847212

So how does overload protection work with a range running 110? What amp breaker is used?

Thanks,

RB

[Broccoli1]

Ed, I was talking about the welder cart in this picture:

http://www.hobartwelders.com/weldtalk/attachment.php?attachmentid=27508&d=1227847212

So how does overload protection work with a range running 110? What amp breaker is used?

Thanks,

RB

That is just a 120v Box for grinders and such.

Ranges are usually 50amp- Over current protection isn't really a concern as the items on a Range using 120v are not likely to create an amp draw that would heat up a wire and start a fire. (I assume this is what you mean)

We plug in plenty of appliances every day that are about 1-2 amps on a Circuit protected by a 15 amp or 20 amp CB

I don't think it is too much of a concern with the set up Pictured either because iffin' yer tool creates an amp draw that would trip a CB the tool is probably Toast anyway- say a Grinder locks up its motor and the Switch sticks in the ON position- you would just un-plug the offending grinder